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second it might be of importance which way you sharpened because if against the edge the steels might have reacted differently to the contamination remaining on the edge. The hardness of the carbides does not matter much unlike with edge retention. I have a Spyderco K390 knife and I cut leather with it as it is only .090 thick and I seldom have to strop it on 1 micron diamond compound on leather. D2 is a high carbon, high chromium die steel and is the highest carbon alloy tool and die steel typically used in knife making. Less expensive, conventionally produced steels include VG-10, D2, 154CM, N690, and 440C. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. This is to keep the focus on the elements that are making the biggest difference. This is one of the fundamental tradeoffs in steel. Generally this is code for difficulty in abrading away steel. I am particularly interested in researching knife steel, knife properties, and brands. Heat treatment refers to the heating and cooling steps employed to achieve your knifes proper balance of attributes. These images are taken from my book Knife Engineering. However, the 14c28n provides perfect edge retention with a maximum hardness of 62Hrc and the mixture of Chromium and Carbon. Where did it come from? Tough steel can handle impacts without gross chipping or a tip breaking off. Thanks again for everything you're doing, it's a tremendous resource. And while it can be hard depending on the heat treat, I have found it easily chips, causing microscopic dings in the edge when hardened to a high level on a thin blade. With conventional steels this limited vanadium additions to about 4-5%, and this was greatly expanded when powder metallurgy was developed. I guess that was before I started reading. But its very cheap, and, when ground appropriately, it can be a real winner from a value standpoint. And a label: AEB-L. For this perfect size that for most tasks and the slim tip allows the knife to excel at piercing and detail work. I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. Most of the midrage ifferings have 14c28n, how does it compare to d2 in your experience? D2 steel is more durable than 14C28N, but it scores lower in terms of ease of sharpening and corrosion resistance. On the other hand, Speed safe assisted opening allows for easy blade deployment with the use of a simple pull back on the ambidextrous flipper. In all of the cases above, properties are greatly controlled by carbides. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday Or even a 7 in both categories. Most edge retention tests isolate wear resistance or how long it takes abrasives to dull your edge in whatever youre cutting. Actually, Id be thinking 14C28N, but I want to leave stainless out. The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. Steels 7Cr and below arent worth your time or money. This can turn the ultra corrosion resistant LC200N or Vanax into a normal stainless steel that will rust with only 1% saltwater. I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. Sandvik later came out with 14C28N which is a slightly improved version of 13C26. Steels without these attributes are much less costly. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. However, there are other factors. a burr might have developped on some of the steels and not on others, it might have ben reduced or even removed by the process. Jesse Jarosz, a custom maker from Montana, regularly uses AEB-L. I would think that the label applies to either the line or the outlier, but probably not both unless the outlier is a measurement error. The high hardness makes it all but impossible to sharpen and machine. Therefore, ensure to wash and dry your knives after use to keep the rust away. The Sandvik 14c28n steel is ideal for the manufacturing of steel knife blades. I've heard d2 is miles better and i dont want to pay 90 for the p135 and get a significantly inferior blade to paying 110 for the D2 Rat. Lately Ive been edcing one of those instead of a nice folder. D2 at 58 hard will cut much more rope than AEB-L at 62. You cannot leave your 14C28N knives in water overnight and expect them not to rust. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. This is a non-powder Japanese steel used primarily in Spyderco knives. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ Austenitizing is the process where the steel is heated to high temperature prior to quenching (rapid cooling) to harden the steel. On the other hand, edge stability in terms of micro chipping and edge folding is also good. High wear resistance is not particularly necessary when only performing chopping, and its good ease in sharpening helps when having to restore the edges. The definition of a quality knife differs among users because of varied needs, but there are basic properties that every quality knife must have. Maxamet and Rex 121 are so extreme in terms of wear resistance and edge retention that I rated them higher than 10 because otherwise it throws off the ratings for everything else. Knifemakers use dozens of steel types to create knife blades. 1095 14C28N steel also has excellent wear resistance due to its high chromium content. One argument I see consistently leveled against 8Cr13MoV compared to AUS-8 is that of the consistency of the composition. Hi Jimmie, thanks for your comments. D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. Despite its age, its a truly superior steel. Pretty interesting that regrinding a knife you already have can seemingly take its performance to that of significantly better steels. It has enough water-fighting properties that it can be used in marine environments. That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. The steel is an air-hardness tool steel that is considered semi-stainless because of its high chromium content. 14c28n vs. D2 Steel D2 is as rigid as 14c28n, thus has almost equal edge retention abilities. Elmax AR-RPM9 Spyderco and Cold Steel have used it, though Cold Steel recently switched to S35VN due to availability concerns. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. They differ little in composition and treatment. 14C28N is offered on midprice knives and is one of the better steels on a dollar-for-dollar basis. Hammering through hickory, digging at roots in sandy soil, and cutting around bone did nothing to chip, dent, or roll the edge of my 3V knives. Not as tough as the best carbon steels, it's tougher than most . The material increase machinability and strength. I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. D2 is not a bad steel, but it has been around a long time and is somewhat mundane by current standards. We looked at common steels used by popular knife brands to help you select the right material for your blade. It gets exceptionally sharp, a nod to its origins as a razorblade steel. On the positive side, they are very easy to forge and grind. CPM 4V 8am-5pm Saturday. High toughness steels can be produced without powder metallurgy and also have low wear resistance for lower manufacturing costs. And Mn and Si isnt shown at all for the high alloy steels, even though those elements are added to all of them. Knife steel nerds have a great write up on 14c28n nik_was 2 yr. ago Would love to see where S7 sits on the Corrosion/Edge/Toughness meter. As wear resistance is increased the differences between conventional and powder metallurgy steels become greater. 14C28N steel holds good hardness. The choice between the two depends on your knife needs. BD1 isnt terribly hard but sharpens easily. A2 is a tool steel renowned for toughness. This is a very important factor when selecting a steel for your knife blade, especially if you plan on spending a lot of time outdoors in an area with high humidity.. S30v is a higher ranked steel and considered a true Stainless Steel, with a 14% . Being stainless is not an on or off property, and some stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion than others. These steels favor edge retention over all else. Thank you for such a great article! Larrin, thank you for this. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. Interesting. I know that one does not normally make knife blades of titanium, but I gather that Ti is extremely corrosion resistant, used for saltwater applications, etc. These two knives are a little bit more than a pretty face. (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) Dr. Thomas is a friend of ours here at Blade HQ, and with his help, weve worked to create this knife steel guide. Vg10 and cpms45vn same toughness at same hardness ? It applies to both of course, hence why there isnt a separate label. Some of these steels also have vanadium (CruForgeV) or tungsten (Blue Super, V-Toku2, 1.2519) for increased wear resistance. 14C28N. There is a powder form, CPM-D2, and PSF27 is also very chemically similar. Cookie Notice A few steels have been added since such as MagnaCut and M398. In other words, heat treating a steel to its maximum hardness does not necessarily mean reduced corrosion resistance. If youre looking for all all-around best knife steel, youd be hard-pressed to find one better than Bohler Uddeholm M390. Corrosion Resistance: D2 steel has a higher chromium content than 8Cr13MoV, which makes it better at resisting corrosion and wear. Chris Reeves version, which is about two points less hard than others, is quite good. Approximately the same hardness, yes. You can read more about these factors in my book Knife Engineering. High alloy tool steels are designed to be air hardening, so they can be cooled even slower than the oil hardening steels found above. n690 The best scenario is when the steel, heat treatment, and geometry are selected for the knife and the use. But if you want to know what the coolest blade material is, for my money, SM100is it. Corrosion on knife steels most usually takes the form of rust, patina, and staining. Your email address will not be published. Great for tensile strength and Edge retention. I mean the box cutter type, with the replaceable trapezoidal blades. Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. With a high level ofedge retention, corrosion resistance, and toughness, it does most everything quite well. Corrosion is not only cosmetic. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. Diamond and CBN stones make sharpening those steels easier. Only a few years ago Elmax was pricey, but competition has driven it down to reasonable levels, making it a decent value. Later, it gets heated and compressed into one ingot. Since the heat treatment is done before you get your knife, and its impossible to tell how good the heat treatment is with your eye, you often must rely on the manufacturers reputation for a good heat treat. D2 steel does not contain enough chromium to make it stainless steel. Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. All rights reserved. Which one is right for you? BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. This was described in this article on Vanax heat treating. They represent the absolute best performers on the market in terms of their specific attributes. Between the assisted open, weird looking texture designs, and the stainless steel handle, the Cannonball has a lot of features I don't normally like, but even I have to admit it's a good design for the price. It should get an ultra-sharp edge for easy cutting, hold the edge for long for easy maintenance, and have a sturdy and ergonomic handle for comfort and to prevent accidents. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. ), intended use will give you all the answers. How could it be? At the end of the article I gave a list of reasons why I hadnt made my own ratings chart, two big reasons were: 1) I didnt yet have articles explaining what edge retention and toughness even is (this was early on in Knife Steel Nerds), 2) I didnt have good experimental numbers on many steels. D2 is another medium-range tool steel. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. Steels with very high vanadium content like Vanadis 8, CPM-10V, K390, CPM-15V, etc. When it comes to handle material, both knives have options available in either plastic or metal. Many knife enthusiasts are concerned with categorizing steels as excellent, good, poor, etc. The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. 14C28N steel is known to offer the highest toughness levels out there. This guide explains important features to consider when buying a new knife for the outdoors. Thanks to powder metallurgy, youll find even better edge retention on the high end. CPM-S90V is my favorite in the high edge retention category because of its decent toughness. Let the job at hand be your guide. Also how did you arrive at the edge retention & toughness numbers for 8cr13mov and for BD1N toughness? Steels do come at various price points, however, depending on the cost of producing them and the cost for the knife company to work with them. I think they are complementary and you should watch/read both. It is a Sandvik stainless steel that originally developed for razor blades. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? On the other hand, 9cr18mov has a slightly higher molybdenum content which gives it higher hardness from quenching and helps drive carbide formation. But Ive found it lacking in hardness, even when compared to cheaper steels like AUS-8. I have the average composition of the steels rated above (plus some extras) so you can see what the different names refer to. Any thoughts how Sleipner might fare in the ratings? There seem to be a lot of modern steels that get related to D2, but OTOH just saying a steel is similar to D2 seems to kill interest in it. Vancron has a very fine microstructure so it would be tough to beat. On the spreadsheet, youve grouped AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV. Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. It would be really useful to have the raw data that backs the charts that you produce. Steel softens as tempering temperature increases, but certain steels see an increase in hardness in a certain higher temperature range such as shown below for high speed steels that are designed for this type of tempering: This high temperature tempering can be done for several reasons, such as better resistance to overheating during grinding, or because a coating will be applied to the knife that requires a high temperature. MC66 Spyderco offers this as the high-end steel for many of its evergreen blades, like the Paramilitary 2, Paramilitary 3, Manix 2, and Native 5. Hello everyone I've been loking into twosun knives recently. Ive found that most makers harden S30V too much, making it prone to chipping at the edge. The big difference in properties vs the low alloy steels, however, are the harder carbides that are found in these steels. 2. Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. Though technically not a stainless steel due to its composition, in use it performs exactly like one. Rather than upgrade from D2 to M4 or S30V just drop the angle from 40 degrees to 30 degrees. Damascus or pattern welded steel is a result of combining two steels together. Its very similar chemically to RWL 34 and ATS-34. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. This is a virtually stain-proof steel suitable for all sorts of aquatic environments. 1.4116 There you said 7.6 for 420HC. I personally don`t care about stainless (sic! For these reasons D2 steel is a good for smaller folding knives, but is not ideal for large fixed blades such as dedicated choppers and large survival knives. And only Vanax and LC200N have been free from corrosion with a 3.5% saltwater solution, though MagnaCut was close. how much more can you bend/pry with it? You can see micrographs of different knife steels to compare their carbides in this article. Is it similar but worse or better at one of the 3 things? thanks thats interesting. In some previous articles I have shown the balance between my toughness and edge retention measurements such as in the following chart, where the high alloy non-stainless are in orange and the blue are stainless: However, one issue with these charts are that difference in toughness is that a linear scale for toughness is a bit misleading for visualizing practical toughness differences. If you want a sharp knife for outdoor or indoor use, D2 knives will not disappoint you. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. Now that we know what each factor represents, we can see how the steels rank against one another. One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. A proprietary steel and heat treat developed by Busse Knives, INFI is an excellent performer and one of the best steels for big choppers on the market.